A Post-GPA Generation

As you probably know, our Executive Director, Dr. Cook, has talked about developing a new curriculum–he has dubbed it “MSMS 2.0”– over the next couple of years. We’ve begun thinking about how requirements for Carnegie units might change. What would happen if the school began offering students written assessments of progress instead of grades? Do you see an upside to this? What are the potential problems?

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27 Responses to A Post-GPA Generation

  1. Bill Arnoldus says:

    If the written assessments of progress are every 9 weeks then this gap of time where students aren’t held accountable for their grade will cause the procrastinators to cram before the assessments and not stay with the pace of the class. This allows for a more flexible schedule which may be a plus side if students need to work around non-academic activities. This allows students to take part in more extracurriculars.

  2. Vishnu Gadepalli says:

    Having written assessments instead of grades sounds like a good thing to me as a concept because there would be more depth to students’ performances and they won’t be subject to surface-level grades. This gives more context to each student and gives particulars on their respective situations. However this only makes me wonder how much more tedious and confusing the college application process would be with reporting grades. Colleges probably have tens of thousands of applications that they need to go through and I think reporting written assessments would make this much harder and inefficient. Besides that, to me, performance in school through grades is reported for our benefit so that we have a concrete understanding of how we are doing and written assessments would convolute this. I agree that grading can be harsh and lack depth, but instead of changing the grading system, a wiser thing to do would be to focus on the education system itself and the means by which it is taught. Ultimately, I believe that written assessments can be a supplement for grades so that the students and their families better understand in what areas the student needs to work on more but I don’t think it would be smart to have only written assessments.

  3. Avery McMechan says:

    Although I would look highly favorable to seeing the end of the Carnegie Unit system, it’s safe to assume that it won’t go anywhere fast. However the idea of new written assesments of progress instead of grades would likely be much better than the current system. There are some up sides and down sides, however these would benefit the school greatly. The first problems would be in conversion, the school already has enough problems with how little credit it gives to it’s students by refusing to allow weighted averages and how that destroys some students ability to apply to college. While the written assesments would show a better display of what the student has actually taken out of it, I just don’t see how it would translate to the real world of college application and Unit recognition. It’s a fantastic idea, and more balanced f0r sure, but the world simply isn’t adapted to allow something like this yet. MSMS would benefit the absolute most, both in student success and morale, if they would get off the high horse of “Academic Excellence” and off the “Opportunity for Excellence” it so proudly claims, by giving AP, University, and Honors courses the same weights that the entire rest of the world does.

  4. Vivian Peng says:

    I believe there are upsides to written assessments. Having a more detailed and nuanced evaluation of student learning can be more effective in assessment than traditional grades. Rather than just receiving a letter or number grade, students receive personalized feedback on their strengths and areas for improvement, which could help them better understand their progress and how to improve. I think written assessments could also reduce competition and the focus on grades as the sole measure of success, creating a more collaborative and supportive learning environment where students feel comfortable taking risks and making mistakes. Teachers will also have to be more involved with individual students to be able to write evaluations. However, there are also potential problems. Without objective criteria, assessments may be subject to biases or interpretation, leading to inconsistencies in grading. Additionally, some students may struggle with the lack of clear benchmarks. I also feel that written assments may not be applicable in the real world. This would be a unique and newer concept that conflicts with previous traditional ways of measuring academic excellence. It could be hard to apply to colleges and etc. without a consistent way of grading.

  5. Gracyn Young says:

    From a student’s point of view, I would love to have written assessments, however, I also understand that it really isn’t the best way to assess the amount of material I grasped throughout the course especially if that assessment is at the end of the year and is cumulative.

    However, if done correctly, I think it could be extremely beneficial for both the students and the administrators. Like stated before, it would allow teachers to be more involved with the students and their level of knowledge. It would be individualized so each student can get what they need to succeed. There could still be a way to measure growth and give the schools the data they need. Etc.

    I do see the other side though, where it would be an excuse for procrastination or unfair for students with major test anxiety.

    Personally, I can see it going either way, I think that it is a good idea, but a few logistical issues should be smoothed out before moving forward.

  6. Alex White says:

    Even though the Carnegie Unit system is does not always adequately reflect a student’s academic success and worth, it is the most efficient and concise way to communicate what a student has accomplished. While written assessments would provide a more in-depth and well-rounded view of a student academically, it would make other processes such as college applications and end-of-term grades more of a challenge. Not to mention, by implementing written assessments there would be increased subjectivity to a student’s academic performance, which you could argue as either good or bad.

  7. Bryanna Boggs says:

    Though the idea of discarding the Carnegie Unit system entirely is a satisfying thought, I don’t think any other method would adequately hold every student accountable for their education. Without a letter grade, what’s stopping a student from neglecting a class they don’t want to take? I highly doubt that a couple of encouraging comments from a teacher, or lack thereof, would have any impact on a student not eager to learn a particular subject. However, I do think that there are ways to encourage students to separate their learning from their letter grades. For example, for those interested in learning more about a subject outside the classroom, teachers can inform their students about academic opportunities that can potentially broaden their horizons. Otherwise, if a student simply wants to get an A and is only taking the class to ensure their graduation, leave them be and let them study physics in an English class.

  8. Makayla Houston says:

    From a student’s point of view, a written assessment would not be so bad, but only for the language and English classes. When it comes to your chemistry, biology and math classes it might be a little more difficult to give written assessments for those classes. The teachers not only have to worry about giving you the grades you need for a lab, but they now have to give each one of their students a written assessment. For other students the idea of a letter grade is very stressful. This sometimes cause people to focus more in some classes and less in others. If this was the case, when the teacher is writing a written assessment the teacher might say that a student was studying for a chemistry quiz while in English class. This a bad reflection on the student and it could be bad for that student. I personally believe that the new idea of written assessments will run into a lot of problems when it first starts out, but maybe we can make it work here at MSMS.

  9. Raegan Calvert says:

    I do not believe, in the long run, that written assignments would successfully replace a number in the gradebook; however, I do believe they would be a helpful tool for students to contemplate where they’re struggling and/or succeeding.

    For humanities classes, which are wholly more subjective in their grading processes, I can see this working well. However, for classes that work under quite “black and white” conditions, particularly our STEM classes, a written assessment would be a very hard thing for teachers to produce. How do you tell a student, in written form, the ways in which they can improve memorizing an equation or solving derivatives that wouldn’t already be covered in class rather than on an individual level?

    I’m also a bit annoyed by people who cry over getting B’s or the ones who repeat to themselves the mantra of “C’s get degrees” while taking exams because I believe academia is something to be grateful for. I came to MSMS for the opportunity to learn, not to pass or fail, because I understand that having that opportunity is something a student can take for granted. I wish I could say what I believe is the best way to instill a passion for learning and a way to convince students that an A in PowerSchool isn’t why they should decide to come to class every day and pay attention during lectures, but it’s a very nuanced issue. I just can’t think of a way to grade students on their performance without causing the consequence of a student’s prioritization of that grading scale over their actual education. I believe we must ask ourselves if that can even be avoided.

  10. Jonathan Kiesel says:

    What best accomplishes the description of a student’s progress, words or numbers? We use the grading scale of numbers nowadays and it has already been working for us very well, especially since its an automated process, saving the time it takes for teachers to grade. In fact, even if a percent does not tell the full story, a written description may be too ambiguous even if the method is capable of emphasizing a certain student’s skill set for a subject.

    I think both methods should be incorporated as a hybrid of sorts, but this would be rather costly if every teacher has to write a short summary about every student of theirs, upon already grading assignments. Even if the workload is not much, shouldn’t it still be formalized and standardized in such a way that we would expect a similar written response for students who make similar grades? Furthermore, how would colleges view these written responses instead of letter grades? I find this idea a possible and unique solution to this grading problem, but it poses a great risk and we have no evidence of this system working in the real world.

  11. Jacqueline Smith says:

    I do see the value in not caring so much about a number, but I think written assessments have the potential to be problematic. Teachers are people and they are very subjective at times. I think some teachers would grill students who don’t deserve it. Or for instance, if I really had a distaste for my third-period class, I may not be happy or active in the class, I may just be trying to get my notes down and study later. In that case, the teacher may write me a bad review even though I’m trying hard in my own time. It would also be very difficult to write a written review about someone’s performance in a math or science course without some number to reference.

    To me, numbers don’t have feelings. They’re raw and objective. With number grades, it’s easy to tell who gets to pass the class and who fails. It doesn’t depend on the teacher’s bias. That’s why there is always room for letters of recommendation. I think exemplary students who work hard but may not receive the best grades deserve a written statement. But again, that seems like where a letter of recommendation would be helpful.

  12. Elijah Camba says:

    I think that this does seem like a good idea, as it focuses more on the knowledge of content rather than the grade. One could pass all A’s in a class that they have no interest in, and they probably wouldn’t remember the lessons after the semester. It could put more emphasis on learning. However, I fear that teachers could have all the power to fail or pass you based off on their Personal evaluation and opinions in their class. This is not a system that is reflective on the real world, or more specifically, the American World. Our education system is based on grades, and nothing more. It would be nice and beneficial to have this in our school system, but in my opinion, I’d say we’d have to change the whole value of our American school system for us to even implement this.

  13. Kinsley Collum says:

    I think it would be terrible to have assessments instead of grades. Grades help track a students progress as they go throughout the class. The bad grades are balanced out by the good grades. I think as a student it would be a lot more stressful if my entire grade was based off of one test alone. The added stress alone would make me do worse than normal. If these written assessments are anything like exams (pretty long and hard) then my mental health would be drained. Also, what happens if you are just having an off day or you’re not feeling good on test day? The only way this would be better was if the exams were heavily studied for and we were very well prepare. They would also need to be pass or fail based because an actual grade would be very discouraging. I can see where it would be a better way for focusing on actually learning rather than grades, but the test themselves would just be too much. Also how would this translate for college? I feel like doing this would mess up future opportunities because there are not exact grades.

  14. Victoria West says:

    Assessments, in my opinion, could be far more beneficial to a student than they may realize. Writing assessments can determine how well a student is progressing in a particular subject. If a student is falling behind in a subject, it will be apparent and can be further discussed rather than slapping a NC in the PowerSchool. These could potentially help students succeed in their subjects and retain info rather than memorizing it the night before a test or quiz. Now, with this comes a handful of downsides. First of all, written assessments would likely take much longer to return than a number grade. Teachers would have to evaluate each and every assignment, which could be harmful to teachers who already (understandably) take longer to grade. The MSMS workload is guaranteed to be substantial, so while assessments could be greatly helpful to students, the probability of them working in a timely manner is slim. Furthermore, mathematics and science classes may be more difficult to assess than the humanities. If a student were to solve a math problem but mistakenly does not put a negative sign, an assessment in place of a grade would not be beneficial. The student clearly knows how to do the problem, they just made a mistake. In the humanities, however, an assessment could be helpful in a case where something needs to be reworded or a concept is misinterpreted. In general, that area is just far more feasible to assess. In conclusion, I believe assessments could be experimented with. In some cases, they could be entirely helpful and can prove a student’s progress in a subject. In others, it may be useless and would be a waste to write rather than a number grade.

  15. Kermit Oville says:

    I believe that an assessment may not be able to communicate effectively how much the student may have learned throughout his or her course. Over the period of nine weeks, you learn a topic and move on to the next topic. This leads students to typically forgetting many of the formulas, rules, and how to simply work the problem out. Grades give the student an opportunity to know how he or she is doing within their class. For example, with an assessment at the end of the nine weeks or semester, I will not be able to track over the time during the course how well I am doing. With the help of PowerSchool and grades, I have the ability to look at my grades and prepare myself for tests while knowing which sections of the unit I might have struggled with. I truly believe there is no upside to a written assessment over grades.

  16. Kermit Oville says:

    I believe that an assessment may not be able to communicate effectively how much the student may have learned throughout their course. Over the period of nine weeks, you learn a topic and move on to the next topic. This leads students to typically forgetting many of the formulas, rules, and how to simply work the problem out. Grades give the student an opportunity to know how he or she is doing within their class. For example, with an assessment at the end of the nine weeks or semester, I will not be able to track over the time during the course how well I am doing. With the help of PowerSchool and grades, I have the ability to look at my grades and prepare myself for tests while knowing which sections of the unit I might have struggled with. I truly believe there is no upside to a written assessment over grades.

  17. Ava Wilson says:

    Overall, this would have a very positive impact on each student’s education and remove competition mindsets as there are no grades to compare. However, on the teacher’s end, this could bode to be a lot of work. I suggest we use these on a need basis and keep the grading system. A possible downside to removing grades is that students won’t know where they stand when applying to colleges and could cause confusion. Grades are also beneficial for students who need numbers to see their improvement, myself included. I also think that relying solely on written assessments gives the teacher too much power to pass or fail a student based on things outside of their knowledge.

  18. James Talamo says:

    While I’m not fully against a system like this, I think the layout of it has to address some very pressing issues. How will students be able to tell how they are doing in the moment? Having a 90 or a 70 allows students to realize what and how they need to balance their course load. How would we compensate for that with a quarterly assessment? There’s a reason that a grading scale was developed, turning to this more subjective way of assessing students leads to more subjective decisions about who stay at MSMS and who gets kicked out. I’m fully against subjectiveness as the primary way to decide a students worth. Grades are as close as we can get to an objective way to determine a students progress and achievement.

  19. Jason Barlow says:

    I would say that an assessment of students instead of grades would be a beneficial point for the MSMS system, with less worry about test-taking and more concern on learning the material and staying engaged in class. Though it does cause me to worry about bias when it comes to the methods of students, the conventional grading system is generally blind to the students methods, knowledge, and behavior within reasonable bounds. A student may already know the subject or have to work hard to learn it then, which doesn’t matter the carnigie system, only requireing you to know the subject. Though a new system would have to account for this when and if implemented as to avoid bias on account of the students actions and methods.

  20. Gordon Welch says:

    It would depend on how many written assessments students take a semester. It makes classes feel more like a pass/fail situation than a letter grade. The upside is a lot less student stress, but I would not be surprised if students learn and retain less information as a result. Carnegie units and the traditional form of testing/assessing what students have learned has been around for decades, and it likely isn’t going anywhere in the near future. The problems with written assessments, students will cram for these since they won’t have as many homework assignments. For this to work, written assessments would have to be limited to English courses and other grades such as homework and in class grades would still have to exist. Written assessments would make learning subjects such as calculus more difficult than it already is.

  21. Bradley Kuebler says:

    I think this would be really weird because of college. High school is supposed to be a basic education that is a gateway for your higher education and if it’s difficult to easily tell apart higher performing students and students who truly care about their education and have a good work ethic then it would make it much harder to stand out. I do think it would result in a better education for people who care about the subject but worse for subjects they don’t care about. I also think it would allow them to just get a baseline knowledge of the subject and succeed rather than actually learning the intricacies of the courses.

  22. Bethany Setiawan says:

    I don’t think having written assessments instead of grades would be a good idea. The assessments may not effectively communicate the extent of a student’s learning throughout the course. Grades serve as a means to monitor a student’s progress throughout a course, with the balance of good and bad grades providing a comprehensive overview. Like many others, I wonder how this could affect future opportunities and college. Ultimately, written assessments would not transfer or have the same effect as grades would.

  23. Myia Williams says:

    Written assessments sounds like a great idea! Receiving criticism on their work is actually beneficial to the students. Written evaluations would highlight areas where a student might need to improve, and they would also help students feel more connected to their teachers. Instead of grades, students can see where might they have went wrong at and where they need to work on more. Written tests, however, can potentially become problematic. Some students may not be able to handle criticism. Tension between the teacher and the student could result from this. Additionally, the student could start to doubt their own effort. Students could become careless. They are able to think that they don’t need to put in as much effort because they aren’t providing a precise grade. Students can also be less prepared for college and the real world. They won’t do this in college. You receive a grade, and that’s all there is to it. They won’t coddle you. This might develop into an issue. Written assessments has pros and cons.

  24. Junran Zhou says:

    Replacing grades for written assessments is not a very good change. Grades exist to provide a structured and objective measurement of a student’s knowledge. The problem with using a written assessment instead of a grade is that a written assessment can be easily manipulated and are highly subjective. For instance, a student favored by a teacher might receive a higher rating than an equally competent but less favored student. Therefore, written assessments should not replace the current grading system. Instead, I think students and teachers would benefit from incorporating written assessments alongside the current grading system. This approach would provide a more comprehensive evaluation of students’ abilities and foster a well-rounded assessment process.

  25. Komal Patel says:

    It would be untrue to say that the current way of assessing students intelligence level is perfect; however, doing away with test scores(for MSMS) entirely would not work for every student or every school subject. I do think that written assessments would be beneficial to a student and a reliever for parents. Students can receive feedback on their weaker areas, and foster better relationships with educators. MSMS teaches concepts as a fast pace and it can sometimes be difficult to focus on weaker areas if the class has moved on to the next topic. So, written assessment can help students keep in pace and learn more from their mistakes. Written assessments have positives, but it wouldn’t incorporate with many students future plans. Colleges already ask for teacher recommendations, so assessments might not be enough. MSMS would have to find a way to make assessments as valid to colleges as grades. Also, in more structured subject like math and chemistry written assessments would not be as helpful because those subjects rely on formulas and logic. In short, written assessments would not be the best for MSMS students. Although, I can see it working for kindergarten though fifth grade.

  26. Komal Patel says:

    It would be untrue to say that the current way of assessing students intelligence level is perfect; however, doing away with test scores(for MSMS) entirely would not work for every student or every school subject. I do think that written assessments would be beneficial to a student and a reliever for parents. Students can receive feedback on their weaker areas, and foster better relationships with educators. MSMS teaches concepts as a fast pace and it can sometimes be difficult to focus on weaker areas if the class has moved on to the next topic. So, written assessment can help students keep in pace and learn more from their mistakes. Written assessments have positives, but it wouldn’t incorporate with many students future plans. I also believe that the main problem is college. Colleges already ask for teacher recommendations, so assessments might not be enough. MSMS would have to find a way to make assessments as valid to colleges as grades. Also, in more structured subject like math and chemistry written assessments would not be as helpful because those subjects rely on formulas and logic. In short, written assessments would not be the best for MSMS students. Although, I can see it working for kindergarten though fifth grade.

  27. Komal Patel says:

    It would be untrue to say that the current way of assessing a students level of intelligence is perfect; however, I don’t think that written assessments are the best replacement for MSMS. Written assessment are appropriate for kindergarten through fifth grade level students. It’s a perfect way to provide student with constructive feedback and allowing them to grow. Written assessments could also be beneficial to MSMS students. MSMS fosters a fast paced learning environment which could make it difficult to focus on past weaker areas. The main problem with written assessments is college. Written assessment do not align with many students future plans. MSMS would have to find a way to make the assessments as valid to colleges as grades currently are. Colleges already require teacher recommendations so written assessments would not be enough. Overall, in theory written assessments are a good idea, but it wouldn’t work to help students into college(which is what MSMS prepares students for).

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